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[quote=”dacat” post=1498]
The high horsepower people were not happy, “man this course is fast!” or “I really got the power on” was not something I heard once. Perhaps someone else can chime in here, since this seems to be a two-side, no budging conversation.
[/quote]I still consider myself a noob, but will say that I concur with this. Most of the previous courses had more sections where you could really nail it and stay on the gas. I didn’t get that with this course…it felt really tight.
[quote=”dacat” post=1498]I would totally believe you if you handily beat your brother with the mazdaspeed, but since you didn’t, well then it’s your opinion.[/quote]
Really? The slow corners is where the MS3 will beat the E36, these type of courses won’t even be a close match. The flowy and sweeping type course is where the E36 is faster… My point was that a car with more power will be faster on that course.
I don’t know how you guys don’t get this…. Cars with more power/torque (most of the times they go hand in hand) will be faster on courses where you have to shut it down and pick back up multiple times…. You think a car with no power will be faster out of a 20mph turn vs. a car with power? Think about it…. Just because you guys with power couldn’t step on the gas for long isn’t the car’s fault. You have to setup the car for the corner exit, from the video i see, some of you guys are plowing into the corner and by the time you can use the throttle, it’s already way past the apex. You want to be on the throttle before the apex.
Point is… Slower turns = better for powerful cars… Faster turns = better for less powerful/momentum cars
I don’t think my car qualifies as high horsepower (200 RWHP) but I did miss having faster sections. Part of that is because I’m all right at driving the edge of traction in big sweepers but not so skilled at tight turns. Usually I plow into them at high speed with front tires sliding then wobble out, trying to get RPMs above 3000 to get some torque. Or I go through them too slowly because I’m afraid of plowing the front.
Anyway Saturday’s course was good practice for me. Need to work on those tight turns.
I have an open diff and it is definitely possible to get power-on oversteer in my car. It’s not very common, and sometimes takes some extra work such as a sudden weight shift or kicking the clutch, but it can happen.
We do get it. Yes of course, turns that you have to shut it down and go are better for high horsepower cars. Is anyone arguing against that? Was that the case in 5 turns on this past course, I don’t believe it, maybe 1-2 turns max. You can’t accept the opinion of others, even the course designer.
Here’s a suggestion, do some more coaching. If we are all having issues and should be faster, then I welcome your expertise on it. Teach us how to drive a high powered car on what most of think is a tight course, then it might change all of our opinions.
First, Let me clarify, I never said the course wasn’t tight. “Is anyone arguing against that?” A tight course means slower turns… That’s what I have been saying all along. Slower turns mean better for higher power cars…. Slower turns = tight?
Second, I mentioned 5 90+ degree turns, not 5 shut it down and go corners. 90+ degrees turns still require you to slow the car significantly. We may have interpretation of that.
Third, I am a terrible coach. I only have 3 advices, it doesn’t matter if you are driving 400+hp, 100hp, FWD, RWD, AWD. The same applies.
A. Look ahead
B. Slow in, fast out
C. Smooth inputs (steering/throttle/brake).Lastly, I accept opinions of others. We can agree to disagree. No hard feelings, I am just stating my opinion too, which obviously you disagree. There are much better drivers than me at the last event that share the same opinion as me, but I am the only one that decided to share it here.
The course was fairly tight, but unless I’m mistaken, there weren’t a lot of places where you could plant your right foot. At least in the videos, it seemed like everyone was feathering the throttle coming off most of the corners.
If you have 400 ft/lbs of torque and you can only put 150 of it to the ground, it’s not doing you much good.
No worries Justin, I like a good debate. I asked you to coach because you and Mack are super fast…always good to get some help from the passenger seat, second set of eyes.
I agree with Dave in that I thought it was a well-balanced course, favoring neither type. Dave has designed some courses that really favor the hp…ask someone like James Keane how he loves those courses more than this one. I usually talk with most people and ask them what they think of the course. So I’m used to what this general crowd thinks, maybe not what other groups think.
BTW, dacat, thanks for coaching me Saturday. Just figured out you were dacat. Though I thought your M3 was silver-grey (silbergrau).
So maybe the momentum car drivers were frustrated because they couldn’t carry speed around the tight turns and the high-HP drivers were frustrated because they couldn’t keep their right feet planted for long after exiting those tight turns.
This theory that lets you all be right–the high HP cars had an advantage accelerating out of tight turns but they weren’t happy because they were using a lower % of their available torque than the low-HP cars!
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